Comments on: But what for the way forward? http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/ perspectives on stuff from an angry feminist Sun, 13 Sep 2009 05:13:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5-RC2 By: Rhiannon http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-382 Rhiannon Fri, 21 Mar 2008 06:12:20 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-382 Hi Rebecca, I can appreciate your frustration in there not being a national Australian lobbygroup. I was involved in setting up SAGE and I am still actively working for SAGE in Western Australia and from my involvement I have found first hand the difficulties in forming any sort of national voice. As a previous poster quite rightly wrote "endless infighting about labels" probably been the single most difficult issue to overcome as differing lables do not see their issues relevant to others, even though those people have probably come along the same path. Australia has a small spead out population in a very big country, individual states are also polarized into there regional groups and resist the notion of a national group. From my experience some of the regional groups will actively deter any new groups starting up in thier area as most of these groups have only a small membership and feel threatened by competition. Peoples time is also a big factor from what I understand of the international sucess stories these organisations have been started and run by dedicated people. Your example of Rodney Croome is a good example of that here, unfortunately we do not have a equivelant Rodney in the T community. I have also wondered about the pro's and con's of being lumped in with the GBL lot, as in truth apart from a few issues we really do not have alot in common with them and from experience only a few have any real understanding of who we are. This was demonstrated recenly when one the leading members of a Perth GBLT group was asked on popular breakfast radio show what a crossresser was? He stated he could not answer the question as he really did not know but he knew most of them were straight and not gay! I to like your idea of a Wiki or you could even start up a myspace page, it could go some way to getting individuals togther, god knows we need it here, coupled wth a news feed on what is going on, love to be involved if you need help. Hi Rebecca, I can appreciate your frustration in there not being a national Australian lobbygroup. I was involved in setting up SAGE and I am still actively working for SAGE in Western Australia and from my involvement I have found first hand the difficulties in forming any sort of national voice. As a previous poster quite rightly wrote “endless infighting about labels” probably been the single most difficult issue to overcome as differing lables do not see their issues relevant to others, even though those people have probably come along the same path. Australia has a small spead out population in a very big country, individual states are also polarized into there regional groups and resist the notion of a national group. From my experience some of the regional groups will actively deter any new groups starting up in thier area as most of these groups have only a small membership and feel threatened by competition.
Peoples time is also a big factor from what I understand of the international sucess stories these organisations have been started and run by dedicated people. Your example of Rodney Croome is a good example of that here, unfortunately we do not have a equivelant Rodney in the T community. I have also wondered about the pro’s and con’s of being lumped in with the GBL lot, as in truth apart from a few issues we really do not have alot in common with them and from experience only a few have any real understanding of who we are. This was demonstrated recenly when one the leading members of a Perth GBLT group was asked on popular breakfast radio show what a crossresser was? He stated he could not answer the question as he really did not know but he knew most of them were straight and not gay! I to like your idea of a Wiki or you could even start up a myspace page, it could go some way to getting individuals togther, god knows we need it here, coupled wth a news feed on what is going on, love to be involved if you need help.

]]> By: Rebecca http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-46 Rebecca Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:36:55 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-46 I'm aware of Good Process, but they seem to have largely died out after the last civil unions battle - I haven't seen any word of any meetings in more than a year, and though Heidi Yates is supposed to speaking at the rally on Saturday, the only reason we knew that she was still around was because we heard her interviewed on the radio a few weeks ago. Not having had the chance to be involved while they were around, I'm not sure of the influence they actually had in some of the recent trans law reform amendments (i.e. the really important stuff about trans prisoners) - I notice a flurry of improvements over the last couple of years, but I also notice that the really quite problematic trans sections of the Discrimination Act don't appear to have been touched, which would seem to be a rather fundamental thing to add in any submission. It's partly because of this that I'm growing increasingly keen to get a trans-specific lobby group going here, if people are up for it. SAGE vaguely rings a bell, but they don't seem to have much of a public profile, and their website seems at a glance to be rather out of date (if Grace Abrams is on the board, why is the alert about the passport issue, of all things, out of date?). I wish we as a community could try and get some sort of national coalition together, because these sorts of small efforts just don't seem to work that well. I’m aware of Good Process, but they seem to have largely died out after the last civil unions battle - I haven’t seen any word of any meetings in more than a year, and though Heidi Yates is supposed to speaking at the rally on Saturday, the only reason we knew that she was still around was because we heard her interviewed on the radio a few weeks ago.

Not having had the chance to be involved while they were around, I’m not sure of the influence they actually had in some of the recent trans law reform amendments (i.e. the really important stuff about trans prisoners) - I notice a flurry of improvements over the last couple of years, but I also notice that the really quite problematic trans sections of the Discrimination Act don’t appear to have been touched, which would seem to be a rather fundamental thing to add in any submission. It’s partly because of this that I’m growing increasingly keen to get a trans-specific lobby group going here, if people are up for it.

SAGE vaguely rings a bell, but they don’t seem to have much of a public profile, and their website seems at a glance to be rather out of date (if Grace Abrams is on the board, why is the alert about the passport issue, of all things, out of date?). I wish we as a community could try and get some sort of national coalition together, because these sorts of small efforts just don’t seem to work that well.

]]> By: Mrs Madrigal http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-43 Mrs Madrigal Mon, 28 Jan 2008 04:09:13 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-43 I was involved with a group called "Good Process" which was estabilshed in response to the ACT Government's call for comments on its paper for GLBTI law reform. The experience was very positive. The group still exists although I haven't been involved since the passing of the legislation. I also cowrote with Tracie O'keefe, the SAGE Australia committee's response on the same issue. SAGE Australia is a national lobby group but, as you note, nothing at present seems to be working. (Grace Abrams is on the SAGE committee). I'm always willing to get involved in human rights activism. What I detest is endless infighting about labels and who can stand under what umbrella. It's human rights that matter...get that right and the rest falls into place. I was involved with a group called “Good Process” which was estabilshed in response to the ACT Government’s call for comments on its paper for GLBTI law reform. The experience was very positive. The group still exists although I haven’t been involved since the passing of the legislation. I also cowrote with Tracie O’keefe, the SAGE Australia committee’s response on the same issue.
SAGE Australia is a national lobby group but, as you note, nothing at present seems to be working. (Grace Abrams is on the SAGE committee).
I’m always willing to get involved in human rights activism. What I detest is endless infighting about labels and who can stand under what umbrella. It’s human rights that matter…get that right and the rest falls into place.

]]> By: nix http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-29 nix Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:15:25 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-29 <i>I wonder how hard it would be to set something like that up?</i> WELL! since you ask, i do know someone who actually gave me the idea in the first place - she is hosts both toilart.org and nixwilliams.com, and also helped build and co-runs supernaturalwiki.com. she has a one-click install for the wiki software, so it could potentially be really easy to start - but possibly a lot more time than i have to organise it! but maybe this is something we should talk to people about, and see if others are interested. it would be an ongoing project, obviously. are you coming down for transdestinations? i think i recall you saying you couldn't make it...? speaking of which, i have to go and put on my organising hat for a few minutes before i go to bed. ahhhh, sleeeeeep! speak soon! I wonder how hard it would be to set something like that up?

WELL! since you ask, i do know someone who actually gave me the idea in the first place - she is hosts both toilart.org and nixwilliams.com, and also helped build and co-runs supernaturalwiki.com. she has a one-click install for the wiki software, so it could potentially be really easy to start - but possibly a lot more time than i have to organise it! but maybe this is something we should talk to people about, and see if others are interested. it would be an ongoing project, obviously.

are you coming down for transdestinations? i think i recall you saying you couldn’t make it…? speaking of which, i have to go and put on my organising hat for a few minutes before i go to bed. ahhhh, sleeeeeep!

speak soon!

]]> By: Rebecca http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-24 Rebecca Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:18:41 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-24 Hey, thanks for the response! I don't necessarily think a national trans organisation would be speaking for all transpeople in the sense of trying to universalise experiences, but I think it would provide a useful focus of presenting a united front on core issues: things like discrimination, passport and birth certificate issues, poverty - none of which tend to feature very highly in the many, many splits within the trans community. But even if that didn't happen, yeah - some more networking would still go a long way towards helping push things forward. I take your point about the LGBTI organisations needing to be pushed into actually acting on behalf of transpeople. It's often a bit hard to know what sort of pressure has actually been applied in these situations because communication within the community is so damned awful. I'm not sure it's always been the case that they've needed to be pushed into things, though - I suspect that either the LGBTI folks here were responsible for our great laws or the pollies did it themselves, because we're rather short on trans activists in the ACT. I think they've also been noticeably less resistant to trans inclusion, with or without pressure, than the folks in the US - as we can see by the startlingly large amount of states that have LGB but not T-inclusive laws. I guess my point with the civil unions legislation was more to say that we need to stand on our own feet rather than necessarily expect the broader queer community to always do it for us. The civil unions bill very much affects me as a queer transwoman, which is why I'm involved in the campaign to defend it, and I'm hoping to god that it gets up. Still, it affects me in pretty much exactly the same way as a queer ciswoman, which is why I think it's not really a *trans* issue. Just because there's queer activists meeting somewhere in the country doesn't always mean that specifically trans issues are a useful addition to the agenda. That's a really cool idea about a trans wiki - if it took off, something like that could be really helpful for cooperation/sharing information. I wonder how hard it would be to set something like that up? Hey, thanks for the response!

I don’t necessarily think a national trans organisation would be speaking for all transpeople in the sense of trying to universalise experiences, but I think it would provide a useful focus of presenting a united front on core issues: things like discrimination, passport and birth certificate issues, poverty - none of which tend to feature very highly in the many, many splits within the trans community. But even if that didn’t happen, yeah - some more networking would still go a long way towards helping push things forward.

I take your point about the LGBTI organisations needing to be pushed into actually acting on behalf of transpeople. It’s often a bit hard to know what sort of pressure has actually been applied in these situations because communication within the community is so damned awful. I’m not sure it’s always been the case that they’ve needed to be pushed into things, though - I suspect that either the LGBTI folks here were responsible for our great laws or the pollies did it themselves, because we’re rather short on trans activists in the ACT. I think they’ve also been noticeably less resistant to trans inclusion, with or without pressure, than the folks in the US - as we can see by the startlingly large amount of states that have LGB but not T-inclusive laws.

I guess my point with the civil unions legislation was more to say that we need to stand on our own feet rather than necessarily expect the broader queer community to always do it for us. The civil unions bill very much affects me as a queer transwoman, which is why I’m involved in the campaign to defend it, and I’m hoping to god that it gets up. Still, it affects me in pretty much exactly the same way as a queer ciswoman, which is why I think it’s not really a *trans* issue. Just because there’s queer activists meeting somewhere in the country doesn’t always mean that specifically trans issues are a useful addition to the agenda.

That’s a really cool idea about a trans wiki - if it took off, something like that could be really helpful for cooperation/sharing information. I wonder how hard it would be to set something like that up?

]]> By: nix http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-22 nix Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:15:27 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/01/19/but-what-for-the-way-forward/#comment-22 hi, rebecca! interesting post. i'd love to see more national networking of trans organisations, but i'm not sure exactly how i feel about <i>a</i> national lobby group that might claim to speak for all transpeople. i'm lucky, living in victoria, that we have quite good legislation (comparatively), but i think it's a little bit misleading to say that this is always because of the GLBTI lobby groups - often it's only because the (much smaller) trans groups are really, REALLY noisy about things and hassle the (bigger) GL(B[t..i]) groups until they grudgingly concede that, yes, we do exist, and since we comprise one of the letters of their acronym they should probably do something. likewise, in terms of a national trans* organisation, there are going to be issues as to what should and shouldn't be lobbied about... you say that civil unions have no bearing on transpeople, which i think is untrue - transpeople can't legally transition and remain married, and some of us are queer, too. whether or not i think it's something trans activists should put their energy into is another matter (and i guess being of a more 'radical' than 'liberal' bent, i am inclined to stay away it). so, already, at least three opinions! i'm rambling here, sorry! i do think that a website for national trans* news would be excellent. and perhaps some kind of australian trans* wiki, with little profiles on people and what they're doing, what issues are connected to which stories, etc? that would be awesome! and it would give people at least the chance to discuss this stuff, which can only be a productive thing. hi, rebecca! interesting post. i’d love to see more national networking of trans organisations, but i’m not sure exactly how i feel about a national lobby group that might claim to speak for all transpeople.

i’m lucky, living in victoria, that we have quite good legislation (comparatively), but i think it’s a little bit misleading to say that this is always because of the GLBTI lobby groups - often it’s only because the (much smaller) trans groups are really, REALLY noisy about things and hassle the (bigger) GL(B[t..i]) groups until they grudgingly concede that, yes, we do exist, and since we comprise one of the letters of their acronym they should probably do something.

likewise, in terms of a national trans* organisation, there are going to be issues as to what should and shouldn’t be lobbied about… you say that civil unions have no bearing on transpeople, which i think is untrue - transpeople can’t legally transition and remain married, and some of us are queer, too. whether or not i think it’s something trans activists should put their energy into is another matter (and i guess being of a more ‘radical’ than ‘liberal’ bent, i am inclined to stay away it). so, already, at least three opinions!

i’m rambling here, sorry! i do think that a website for national trans* news would be excellent. and perhaps some kind of australian trans* wiki, with little profiles on people and what they’re doing, what issues are connected to which stories, etc? that would be awesome! and it would give people at least the chance to discuss this stuff, which can only be a productive thing.

]]>