Comments on: One student’s prattling on academic objectification, transpeople, and the fall of women’s studies http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/ perspectives on stuff from an angry feminist Sun, 13 Sep 2009 05:06:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5-RC2 By: Rebecca http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-635 Rebecca Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:44:00 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-635 oh, amen! i wish it were possible to convey to those in academia just how offensive that is. I've unfortunately never been able to read Namaste - one of the problems with being in Australia - or at least in Canberra - is that swathes of important feminist literature is simply unavailable, unless one purchases it from overseas - which I mostly lack the money to do. I've been meaning to get hold of her stuff for ages, though, especially after reading what Serano had to say about her. I'll be writing my honours thesis on precisely this topic in 2009, and the department head has promised to try and actually get some of the books I'll be basing my thesis on into the ANU library, so hopefully Invisible Lives will be one of them. thanks for dropping by, anyway! oh, amen! i wish it were possible to convey to those in academia just how offensive that is.

I’ve unfortunately never been able to read Namaste - one of the problems with being in Australia - or at least in Canberra - is that swathes of important feminist literature is simply unavailable, unless one purchases it from overseas - which I mostly lack the money to do.

I’ve been meaning to get hold of her stuff for ages, though, especially after reading what Serano had to say about her. I’ll be writing my honours thesis on precisely this topic in 2009, and the department head has promised to try and actually get some of the books I’ll be basing my thesis on into the ANU library, so hopefully Invisible Lives will be one of them.

thanks for dropping by, anyway!

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By: vek http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-634 vek Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:24:03 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-634 i'm so tired of that kind of gender theory that has nothing to do with real peoples' lives. it's absolutely parasitical. how grotesque that people muse on brandon teena's "performance of gender" as if that were the important issue in his life and death! or in any trans person's. TRANS PEOPLE ARE NOT JUST ILLUSTRATIONS OF GENDER DE/CONSTRUCTION!! Wake up you academics! i've read serano's work although i think namaste's is better in some ways. (serano bases a lot of her observations on namaste's.) serano seems to hedge on the subject of sex work and sex positive trans identities... i don't think her work comes to terms with that, but that's just my feeling. get hold of the piece called 'tragic misreadings' by namaste. i'm sure you'll relate!! i’m so tired of that kind of gender theory that has nothing to do with real peoples’ lives. it’s absolutely parasitical. how grotesque that people muse on brandon teena’s “performance of gender” as if that were the important issue in his life and death! or in any trans person’s. TRANS PEOPLE ARE NOT JUST ILLUSTRATIONS OF GENDER DE/CONSTRUCTION!! Wake up you academics!

i’ve read serano’s work although i think namaste’s is better in some ways. (serano bases a lot of her observations on namaste’s.) serano seems to hedge on the subject of sex work and sex positive trans identities… i don’t think her work comes to terms with that, but that’s just my feeling.

get hold of the piece called ‘tragic misreadings’ by namaste. i’m sure you’ll relate!!

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By: Rebecca http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-576 Rebecca Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:15:58 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-576 I agree with you in a sense, Robbie - there was some useful discussions there, especially her critique of simplistic understandings of sex. However, I found her constant and deliberate mangling of gender identity and gender expression to be grossly cissexist. It may be fun to deconstruct as a philosophical question, but gender simply doesn't work that way in this culture - and Butler's work in that regard has driven a whole load of ignorant transphobia from segments of the supposedly progressive left. It runs into another of my major problems with Butler: the way she merges the <i>why</i> and the <i>what</i>: she's all about whether something is constructed or not, but ignores the reality that something that is constructed is no less real in actuality. I might make a couple of more detailed critiques of Butler later in the week, once I've gotten over the flu, stopped procrastinating, and finished my critique of Gender Trouble. I have to say though - reading the damned turgid thing has more than reaffirmed my opinion of Butler as "batshit-ignorant-denizen-of-the-ivory-tower", even if she does bring some useful ideas to the table. I agree with you in a sense, Robbie - there was some useful discussions there, especially her critique of simplistic understandings of sex.

However, I found her constant and deliberate mangling of gender identity and gender expression to be grossly cissexist. It may be fun to deconstruct as a philosophical question, but gender simply doesn’t work that way in this culture - and Butler’s work in that regard has driven a whole load of ignorant transphobia from segments of the supposedly progressive left. It runs into another of my major problems with Butler: the way she merges the why and the what: she’s all about whether something is constructed or not, but ignores the reality that something that is constructed is no less real in actuality.

I might make a couple of more detailed critiques of Butler later in the week, once I’ve gotten over the flu, stopped procrastinating, and finished my critique of Gender Trouble. I have to say though - reading the damned turgid thing has more than reaffirmed my opinion of Butler as “batshit-ignorant-denizen-of-the-ivory-tower”, even if she does bring some useful ideas to the table.

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By: Robbie http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-575 Robbie Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:02:26 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-575 The one thing that I really liked a lot about Butler was that she described sex as a discontiguous set of gendered attributes. But rather than simply using that to dismiss sex, as in the standard trans canon, she pointed out that it is not exactly distinct from the discontiguous sets of gendered attributes that we know as gender and she questioned whether it really does us any good to support a sex/gender dichotomy that is necessary for the privileging of "scientific" biological sex over "unscientific" gender. In short, the sex/gender divide is altogether a bit wishy-washy when you look at it closely and far too essentialist for my tastes. That is basically the foundation of the way that I understand it now: people don't have a single monolithic sex, but rather they have various characteristics which may individually be interpreted as masculine or feminine, and that interpretation interacts subjectively with gender presentation and identity. There's a kind of freedom there, to change and re-interpret without any such re-interpretation being "delusional". An understanding like that makes it easy to say that your body is not a male body now, and I for one would go nutty without HRT if I couldn't do a little creative body image re-interpretation of my own. That was one of the things I found disappointing about Whipping Girl, actually, that she mostly took the sex/gender dichotomy for granted. It was a good book overall but I couldn't agree with it 100%. The one thing that I really liked a lot about Butler was that she described sex as a discontiguous set of gendered attributes. But rather than simply using that to dismiss sex, as in the standard trans canon, she pointed out that it is not exactly distinct from the discontiguous sets of gendered attributes that we know as gender and she questioned whether it really does us any good to support a sex/gender dichotomy that is necessary for the privileging of “scientific” biological sex over “unscientific” gender.

In short, the sex/gender divide is altogether a bit wishy-washy when you look at it closely and far too essentialist for my tastes.

That is basically the foundation of the way that I understand it now: people don’t have a single monolithic sex, but rather they have various characteristics which may individually be interpreted as masculine or feminine, and that interpretation interacts subjectively with gender presentation and identity. There’s a kind of freedom there, to change and re-interpret without any such re-interpretation being “delusional”. An understanding like that makes it easy to say that your body is not a male body now, and I for one would go nutty without HRT if I couldn’t do a little creative body image re-interpretation of my own.

That was one of the things I found disappointing about Whipping Girl, actually, that she mostly took the sex/gender dichotomy for granted. It was a good book overall but I couldn’t agree with it 100%.

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By: queen emily http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-535 queen emily Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:50:38 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-535 Yeah, she doesn't like gay men much either, she's anti "queer." It's all quite bizarre considering she's vaguely a Deleuzian. Lesbian feminism in French clothing innit. Yeah, she doesn’t like gay men much either, she’s anti “queer.” It’s all quite bizarre considering she’s vaguely a Deleuzian. Lesbian feminism in French clothing innit.

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By: queen emily http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-534 queen emily Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:47:14 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-534 And yes, there's more than a few cis lecturers who feel they can talk about the philosophical implications of trans bodies--sorry, cultural signification--but who don't know *anything* about the medical and psych hoops, the effects of hormones, the legal implications, or uh much at all really. And yes, there’s more than a few cis lecturers who feel they can talk about the philosophical implications of trans bodies–sorry, cultural signification–but who don’t know *anything* about the medical and psych hoops, the effects of hormones, the legal implications, or uh much at all really.

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By: Rebecca http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-533 Rebecca Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:42:21 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-533 That's the one! It wasn't just transpeople, either...I remember gay men taking some flak, and most people outside traditional ideas of sexuality. That’s the one! It wasn’t just transpeople, either…I remember gay men taking some flak, and most people outside traditional ideas of sexuality.

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By: queen emily http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-532 queen emily Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:35:48 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-532 Hmm do you mean Elisabeth Grosz? Her transphobic rant at the end of Volatile Bodies was pretty special. Hmm do you mean Elisabeth Grosz? Her transphobic rant at the end of Volatile Bodies was pretty special.

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By: Rebecca http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-531 Rebecca Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:02:27 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-531 I guess it's an experience I've never really had, actually teaching critical theory alongside and in conjunction with other feminism - critical theory as I've done it has always been pretty much on its own, and I've mostly been left thinking "okay, I understand what this person is saying, but how in hades is it relevant to reality?" You're spot on about race in Australian gender studies, too - in my degree, it's been a case of "race? what race?" I had two classes where it was seriously raised. Both were taught by WoC (and one of those was on Freudian film theory, which wasn't the most insightful course in history). I think I learned as much in the other one of them as I did in the whole rest of my degree. We're also doing a bit on Spivak at the moment, basically as a token postcolonialist feminist, but yeah - not much. I hadn't thought of there being a gatekeeper function in those terms before, but I think that might be right on. I can think of about ten WoC theorists off the top of my head with more current and more insightful work than Spivak, but it's her that we're studying on race. The only trans theorists I've ever studied directly were Susan Stryker and some transguy whose name I can't remember but whose work resembled the product of a particularly wacky acid trip - both of which fit right into that theoretical trend. Really, I think you've actually hit on one of my main beefs with critical theory - that I don't get the chance to study perspectives of marginalised groups - especially those that I'm a part of - that are more grounded in reality than the current theoretical fad. I'll have to see if I can get Whipping Girl onto reading lists at ANU, though. I'm fairly well known around the department, and I'm doing my honours thesis on the appropriation of trans lives and experiences by cissexual academics, so I'm hoping to cause a few waves - for I'm so sick of having to do trans 101 with lecturers who seem to feel qualified to teach about trans issues, but not, y'know, to know the most basic information about our experiences. and Jefferies? Like Emily said, she's a dinosaur. I've never seen her cited for anything outside of radfemwingnutland. More problematic these days is that other transphobic Australian women's studies professor whose name escapes me. I've had bits of her work cited in various courses, and her work is pretty widely available in Borders, but the detail of it is pretty...special...it's the bastard ideological child of Judith Butler and Fred Nile. Can you think of the woman I'm thinking of, Emily? I guess it’s an experience I’ve never really had, actually teaching critical theory alongside and in conjunction with other feminism - critical theory as I’ve done it has always been pretty much on its own, and I’ve mostly been left thinking “okay, I understand what this person is saying, but how in hades is it relevant to reality?”

You’re spot on about race in Australian gender studies, too - in my degree, it’s been a case of “race? what race?” I had two classes where it was seriously raised. Both were taught by WoC (and one of those was on Freudian film theory, which wasn’t the most insightful course in history). I think I learned as much in the other one of them as I did in the whole rest of my degree. We’re also doing a bit on Spivak at the moment, basically as a token postcolonialist feminist, but yeah - not much.

I hadn’t thought of there being a gatekeeper function in those terms before, but I think that might be right on. I can think of about ten WoC theorists off the top of my head with more current and more insightful work than Spivak, but it’s her that we’re studying on race. The only trans theorists I’ve ever studied directly were Susan Stryker and some transguy whose name I can’t remember but whose work resembled the product of a particularly wacky acid trip - both of which fit right into that theoretical trend. Really, I think you’ve actually hit on one of my main beefs with critical theory - that I don’t get the chance to study perspectives of marginalised groups - especially those that I’m a part of - that are more grounded in reality than the current theoretical fad.

I’ll have to see if I can get Whipping Girl onto reading lists at ANU, though. I’m fairly well known around the department, and I’m doing my honours thesis on the appropriation of trans lives and experiences by cissexual academics, so I’m hoping to cause a few waves - for I’m so sick of having to do trans 101 with lecturers who seem to feel qualified to teach about trans issues, but not, y’know, to know the most basic information about our experiences.

and Jefferies? Like Emily said, she’s a dinosaur. I’ve never seen her cited for anything outside of radfemwingnutland. More problematic these days is that other transphobic Australian women’s studies professor whose name escapes me. I’ve had bits of her work cited in various courses, and her work is pretty widely available in Borders, but the detail of it is pretty…special…it’s the bastard ideological child of Judith Butler and Fred Nile. Can you think of the woman I’m thinking of, Emily?

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By: queen emily http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-529 queen emily Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:17:31 +0000 http://burningwords.net/2008/03/05/one-students-prattling-on-academic-objectification-transpeople-and-the-fall-of-womens-studies/#comment-529 >>>maybe that’s why she feels under siege: she’s nearly extinct career-wise? Oh, she's a bloody dinosaur, out-dated by early 90s queer theory, let alone trans theory. Besides her coterie of adoring fan-girls on campus and on-line, she's an irrelevancy in contemporary gender studies (if well-known). I have honestly never ever seen anyone quote her as an authority on anything. >>>maybe that’s why she feels under siege: she’s nearly extinct career-wise?

Oh, she’s a bloody dinosaur, out-dated by early 90s queer theory, let alone trans theory. Besides her coterie of adoring fan-girls on campus and on-line, she’s an irrelevancy in contemporary gender studies (if well-known). I have honestly never ever seen anyone quote her as an authority on anything.

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