Comments on: I think I’m honestly speechless. http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/ perspectives on stuff from an angry feminist Sun, 13 Sep 2009 05:05:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5-RC2 By: Natalia http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-945 Natalia Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:04:00 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-945 Tobes, look at *where* that statement is actually coming from. Look at the position this person is in. It's not a personal attack. It's talking about how ingrained and institutionalized racism is - even within progressive movements that are supposed to be *above* that shit, but, as we keep discovering, are not. Tobes, look at *where* that statement is actually coming from. Look at the position this person is in. It’s not a personal attack. It’s talking about how ingrained and institutionalized racism is - even within progressive movements that are supposed to be *above* that shit, but, as we keep discovering, are not.

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By: belledame222 http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-943 belledame222 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:46:33 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-943 >>hearing that there’s this untrustworthiness about white women or white feminists SCARES ME.>> I honestly don't get this either, but I suppose we're past the point of trying to understand why at this point... >>hearing that there’s this untrustworthiness about white women or white feminists SCARES ME.>>

I honestly don’t get this either, but I suppose we’re past the point of trying to understand why at this point…

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By: Tobes http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-919 Tobes Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:29:18 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-919 I am so, so, so, SOOOOOOOO stressed right now. I am not trying to silence anyone. ANYWHERE. This is a comment that was posted on MY blog about how "white girls need to get over themselves" and aren't to be trusted. As a white feminist blogger that really scared me and I continue to try and ask why that's an okay thing to say—Why (without knowing anything else about me except that I am white) would I be considered untrustworthy? I never meant for this to go anywhere bad and I'm sorry if I gave someone the idea that by engaging in debate, I am silencing them. All I've ever tried to do is understand because hearing that there's this untrustworthiness about white women or white feminists SCARES ME. I'm seeing now I should just shut my mouth and quit questioning, because if I continue to do so, I further put myself into enemy camp and am accused of throwing tantrums. I can honestly say I've never felt so misunderstood in the blogosphere before today. I'll continue examining issues of racism and privilege at my blog and in my personal life. Maybe someday I'll feel differently about Tiffany's original statment, maybe I'll see it differently. But maybe not. And that's okay too. Please believe my sincerity when I say that I’m truly sorry I am no longer welcome here. It wasn't supposed to go this way. I am so, so, so, SOOOOOOOO stressed right now. I am not trying to silence anyone. ANYWHERE. This is a comment that was posted on MY blog about how “white girls need to get over themselves” and aren’t to be trusted. As a white feminist blogger that really scared me and I continue to try and ask why that’s an okay thing to say—Why (without knowing anything else about me except that I am white) would I be considered untrustworthy?

I never meant for this to go anywhere bad and I’m sorry if I gave someone the idea that by engaging in debate, I am silencing them. All I’ve ever tried to do is understand because hearing that there’s this untrustworthiness about white women or white feminists SCARES ME.

I’m seeing now I should just shut my mouth and quit questioning, because if I continue to do so, I further put myself into enemy camp and am accused of throwing tantrums.

I can honestly say I’ve never felt so misunderstood in the blogosphere before today. I’ll continue examining issues of racism and privilege at my blog and in my personal life. Maybe someday I’ll feel differently about Tiffany’s original statment, maybe I’ll see it differently. But maybe not. And that’s okay too.

Please believe my sincerity when I say that I’m truly sorry I am no longer welcome here. It wasn’t supposed to go this way.

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By: I’m just a link « zunguzungu http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-917 I’m just a link « zunguzungu Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:41:23 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-917 [...] list, Karnythia at The Angry Black Woman, Noli Irritare Leones, Lauredhel at Hoyden About Town, Burning Words, GallingGala, Feminocracy, Maia at Alas A Blog, Ottermatic, BastardLogic,The Rotund,Three Rivers [...] […] list, Karnythia at The Angry Black Woman, Noli Irritare Leones, Lauredhel at Hoyden About Town, Burning Words, GallingGala, Feminocracy, Maia at Alas A Blog, Ottermatic, BastardLogic,The Rotund,Three Rivers […]

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By: Fire Fly http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-916 Fire Fly Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:25:39 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-916 Tobes, you've just demonstrated that, regardless of what other white people do YOU are not to be trusted because you just engaged in the silencing, redirective, entitled behaviour that poc hate, but get all the time. Seriously, a person can't distrust white people without you chucking a tantrum about it? Your "allyhood" is not worth the trouble. Tobes, you’ve just demonstrated that, regardless of what other white people do YOU are not to be trusted because you just engaged in the silencing, redirective, entitled behaviour that poc hate, but get all the time. Seriously, a person can’t distrust white people without you chucking a tantrum about it? Your “allyhood” is not worth the trouble.

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By: Rebecca http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-909 Rebecca Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:07:03 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-909 I think Lauredhel and belledame effectively responded to much of the above, and I'm not happy about further derailing the point of this post, but it's just, Tobes - I honestly don't get (even though it's kind of a privileged-class thang) why you're taking this on such a weirdly personal level. "I still hope and pray that a feminist of color could see me as an ally or at the least not view me as an immediate enemy." Where on earth did that come from? I certainly hope that a good few women of colour see me as an ally, but it's my job to walk the walk and earn that respect through my actions, not through passive-aggressive, entitled "but I'm one of the good ones!" tantrums. Where does a member of an oppressed minority group distrusting those who as a group have oppressed hir turn into always and forever viewing each and every individual member of that group as "an immediate enemy"? I think Lauredhel and belledame effectively responded to much of the above, and I’m not happy about further derailing the point of this post, but it’s just, Tobes - I honestly don’t get (even though it’s kind of a privileged-class thang) why you’re taking this on such a weirdly personal level.

“I still hope and pray that a feminist of color could see me as an ally or at the least not view me as an immediate enemy.”

Where on earth did that come from? I certainly hope that a good few women of colour see me as an ally, but it’s my job to walk the walk and earn that respect through my actions, not through passive-aggressive, entitled “but I’m one of the good ones!” tantrums. Where does a member of an oppressed minority group distrusting those who as a group have oppressed hir turn into always and forever viewing each and every individual member of that group as “an immediate enemy”?

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By: Tobes http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-895 Tobes Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:09:05 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-895 All I'm asking is that someone not dismiss me-- a person they've never met -- based on the fact that I'm white. And imply that because I'm white, I'll hurt them "time and again" or eventually what?-- sell out, step on them to get somewhere? It's insulting. I'm not trying to deny the many, many bad experiences WOC have had had with white feminists. But I guess I'm arguing this point because saying "white women aren't to be trusted" sounds a lot like giving up. I still hope and pray that a feminist of color could see me as an ally or at the least not view me as an immediate enemy. That is my genuine concern. And it IS my truth. I don't write off men or even conservatives even though I've had thousands of reasons too. I try and do the hard work of judging people on a case by case basis, and talking through something when they upset me. At some point you have to walk away from toxic individuals, but does that mean every person from that group is a lost cause? I'm not trying to tell POC what they feel or how they should feel. I'm saying-- THIS IS HOW I FEEL. But what I'm getting in response is 'better just drop it' -- and I really think that’s counterproductive. I’m not trying to be a thorn in this comment thread but I still think I have a valid point. I keep hearing that we need more dialogue between white feminists and women of color so that we understand each other better. Well I’m trying to understand. *sigh* Look-- I acknowledge that I'm far from perfect. I AM being defensive here. I have a lot (LOT) to learn and I know I've put my foot in my mouth-- but I don't want people writing me off based on my skin color. I don't think anyone wants that. I'm not disputing white privilege, that racism exists, that I couldn't possibly understand the unique challenges women of color face... but I'd like to try, I’m not saying it’s anyone’s job to teach me. I’m just saying if someone calls me out, I’ll listen to the criticism and try and benefit. Everyone keeps trying to explain to me WHY it’s okay that Tiffany said what she said or why it shouldn’t bother me or why it’s true, but I just can’t understand. Some have even said, “It’s not necessarily all white people,” but her exact words were "ya'll" as in YOU ALL. As in white people = untrustworthy. I just can't ever be okay with that. Belledame, you are right when you say I can’t control what other people think or do. But I’m just voicing my opinion on all of this. And I think I have that right just as much as anyone else. Honestly, I feel like we're arguing a tiny point here. As far as the Marcotte/book/BFP situation, I'm in agreement. It's just that one 'can't-be-trusted' statement and (continued support of said statement) that's bothering me. All I’m asking is that someone not dismiss me– a person they’ve never met — based on the fact that I’m white. And imply that because I’m white, I’ll hurt them “time and again” or eventually what?– sell out, step on them to get somewhere? It’s insulting. I’m not trying to deny the many, many bad experiences WOC have had had with white feminists. But I guess I’m arguing this point because saying “white women aren’t to be trusted” sounds a lot like giving up. I still hope and pray that a feminist of color could see me as an ally or at the least not view me as an immediate enemy.

That is my genuine concern. And it IS my truth. I don’t write off men or even conservatives even though I’ve had thousands of reasons too. I try and do the hard work of judging people on a case by case basis, and talking through something when they upset me. At some point you have to walk away from toxic individuals, but does that mean every person from that group is a lost cause?

I’m not trying to tell POC what they feel or how they should feel. I’m saying– THIS IS HOW I FEEL. But what I’m getting in response is ‘better just drop it’ — and I really think that’s counterproductive. I’m not trying to be a thorn in this comment thread but I still think I have a valid point. I keep hearing that we need more dialogue between white feminists and women of color so that we understand each other better. Well I’m trying to understand.

*sigh*

Look– I acknowledge that I’m far from perfect. I AM being defensive here. I have a lot (LOT) to learn and I know I’ve put my foot in my mouth– but I don’t want people writing me off based on my skin color. I don’t think anyone wants that.

I’m not disputing white privilege, that racism exists, that I couldn’t possibly understand the unique challenges women of color face… but I’d like to try, I’m not saying it’s anyone’s job to teach me. I’m just saying if someone calls me out, I’ll listen to the criticism and try and benefit.

Everyone keeps trying to explain to me WHY it’s okay that Tiffany said what she said or why it shouldn’t bother me or why it’s true, but I just can’t understand. Some have even said, “It’s not necessarily all white people,” but her exact words were “ya’ll” as in YOU ALL. As in white people = untrustworthy. I just can’t ever be okay with that.

Belledame, you are right when you say I can’t control what other people think or do. But I’m just voicing my opinion on all of this. And I think I have that right just as much as anyone else.

Honestly, I feel like we’re arguing a tiny point here. As far as the Marcotte/book/BFP situation, I’m in agreement. It’s just that one ‘can’t-be-trusted’ statement and (continued support of said statement) that’s bothering me.

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By: lauredhel http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-893 lauredhel Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:23:34 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-893 <blockquote>Well this is my truth—I think it’s too ‘easy’ to write off all people because many of them have hurt you. </blockquote> That's not "your truth" - that's your interpretation of someone else's feelings and motivations.

Well this is my truth—I think it’s too ‘easy’ to write off all people because many of them have hurt you.

That’s not “your truth” - that’s your interpretation of someone else’s feelings and motivations.

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By: belledame222 http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-890 belledame222 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:59:08 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-890 Yeh, Tobes, the point is, -you- may not do it, "would" do it, whatevs; but what other people do really is not under your control, so maybe best to drop it, hm? Yeh, Tobes, the point is, -you- may not do it, “would” do it, whatevs; but what other people do really is not under your control, so maybe best to drop it, hm?

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By: Fire Fly http://burningwords.net/2008/04/26/i-think-im-honestly-speechless/#comment-889 Fire Fly Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:54:14 +0000 http://burningwords.net/?p=97#comment-889 Easier than what, Tobes? Fighting an uphill battle with every white person you meet to get to a point where maybe they get that their normal actions are damaging to you? Getting hurt time and again when you take the risk? <i>All that doesn’t mean I don’t benefit from white privilege or that I’m perfect and I understand racism. I’m sure I don’t….</i> You say that, but you really obviously don't get it. I would suggest you stop telling people of colour what they should do. Easier than what, Tobes? Fighting an uphill battle with every white person you meet to get to a point where maybe they get that their normal actions are damaging to you? Getting hurt time and again when you take the risk?

All that doesn’t mean I don’t benefit from white privilege or that I’m perfect and I understand racism. I’m sure I don’t….

You say that, but you really obviously don’t get it.

I would suggest you stop telling people of colour what they should do.

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